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What are your opinions about this heater?

http://www.biotechresearch.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=34_36&products_id=72&osCsid=3e66229f2faa035c7e2a879294b15ae0

I am mostly concerned with the cost of electric for the heat output generated. $1/day (their estimate) would probably save some money, and I would only use it when in the room. If this unit was used to heat a room at the bottom of a stairway, would the heat go up the stairway?

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OK, now I'm going to the web for more fodder...

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Check google results that appear to be bulliten boards for DIY or construction type sites. They typically have responses from actual users, not the folks trying to sell you their heater.
Al

--------------------
Common sense is not so common.
Voltaire





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What are your opinions about this heater?

http://www.biotechresearch.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=34_36&products_id=72&osCsid=3e66229f2faa035c7e2a879294b15ae0

I am mostly concerned with the cost of electric for the heat output generated. $1/day (their estimate) would probably save some money, and I would only use it when in the room. If this unit was used to heat a room at the bottom of a stairway, would the heat go up the stairway?

OK, now I'm going to the web for more fodder...

---

$1 a day. Thats not cheap at all, at least to me. Even at $300/month for gas - which I have hit when prices are high and the weather is cold (and then I cry a lot ) that comes out to $10/day for my entire 3 bedroom 3 bath house. and additional $1 a day is another 10%, just for an electric heater.

Personaly, I am fond of the oil filled ones. I have one in my basement (in case anyone makes the connection, this means I have NOT got around to running the heat down there yet ) They fire up fairly quickly, and then provide a nice even heat, with very little cycyling. Mine has adjustable wattages and an adjustable thermostat.

-dave



--------------------
You're drunk again!
No, I'm just exhausted 'cause I've been up all night drinking.


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$1 a day. Thats not cheap at all, at least to me. Even at $300/month for gas - which I have hit when prices are high and the weather is cold (and then I cry a lot ) that comes out to $10/day for my entire 3 bedroom 3 bath house. and additional $1 a day is another 10%, just for an electric heater.

Personaly, I am fond of the oil filled ones. I have one in my basement (in case anyone makes the connection, this means I have NOT got around to running the heat down there yet )

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They fire up fairly quickly, and then provide a nice even heat, with very little cycyling. Mine has adjustable wattages and an adjustable thermostat.

-dave

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Also a very good heater, though I'd suggest getting feedback on any particular type before buying one. They are not all created equal, but the good ones ARE one of the best ways to go for temporary heating sources. Got a particular model you happen to be fond of Dave? The reason I say this is because I've seen a couple of the upright models (off brands) come back to the Depot, "slightly burned". Melted actually, though again, I DO happen to like that style with the better brands. As you said, very even heat, and a nice long off cycle due to the oil continuing to radiate heat long after the resistance heaters have gone cold.
Al

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Common sense is not so common.
Voltaire





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What are your opinions about this heater?

http://www.biotechresearch.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=34_36&products_id=72&osCsid=3e66229f2faa035c7e2a879294b15ae0

I am mostly concerned with the cost of electric for the heat output generated. $1/day (their estimate) would probably save some money, and I would only use it when in the room. If this unit was used to heat a room at the bottom of a stairway, would the heat go up the stairway?

OK, now I'm going to the web for more fodder...

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I'm going to chime in a bit late here. Just by looking at the other products they offer, I wouldn't buy anything from this catalog.


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Kyle

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Got a particular model you happen to be fond of Dave?

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DeLonghi - 1500 W

Not sure where it came from. I've had it for 4 years or so with no problems. I think I inherited it, now that I think about it.

-dave

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You're drunk again!
No, I'm just exhausted 'cause I've been up all night drinking.


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Let me offer my thinking on the edenpure heater as I sit, somewhat cold, in my office trying to decide whether or not to buy one. As I understand this, a quartz infrared heater is good at heating objects rather than the air. This can keep a person relatively warm in a cool room if they stay seated or at least within the arc of the infrared lamp. That makes it relatively more efficient than heating the entire space around them, even if the cost/btu looks unfavorable.

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Welcome to the forums marc13.
Did you notice that they don't give a BTU rating, or a wattage rating? Your assumptions about quartz heaters are correct, but infrared I'm not sure of. I haven't found much about that type, but do take notice of what some of us have suggested as alternates to this thing. In the sites I visited from other boards, I didn't see even one post recommending them (any style). The edenpure in EVERY case was concidered to be highly overpriced and very INefficient. JM ( Junkman462 summed it up very well, have a look.

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The Edenpure seems to be a hybrid system. It uses an infrared lamp to heat a copper heat-exchanger. That would make it less efficient that using the infrared to heat you directly, but potentially more efficient in heating the entire room, because the infrared is (might be?) more efficient than oil or gas in heating the heat-exchanger.

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May I ask where you found this information? I've looked all over the place and couldn't find anything more than the manufacturers *claims. Nothing about copper heat exchanger.

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If the room has relatively high humidity, this effect would be enhanced by the heat carrying capacity of the humidity (I just stepped over the bounds of what I think I understand).

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As an investment, the Edenpure also has the advantage of any portable heat source in that it is portable. So I'm still a little skeptical, but still considering it. Like virtually all technologies, but might not be the best for all applications, but it might be the best for some.

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At that price, I seriously doubt it.

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I'd appreciate any corrections on my thinking or understanding of thermodynamics. Thanks

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Sounds like you have the jist of it, though I WILL bow to MANY others here.
Al

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Happy return to an arbitrarily chosen starting point in the orbit about our gravitational enslaver.
Swansont




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. . . . At $397, that's a very expensive 1500 watt electric heater . . . .

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I was just thinking the same thing, Junkman.
1500 watts is about 5200 BTU. (That's what's on the label of a ceramic 'cube' heater I have under a desk at work.)
Just for comparison - most hair dryers are about 1500 watts.

--------------------
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."--H.L.Mencken
I suspect so, H.L.heh heh

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Thoughts?

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Hi there Bears fan. Chicago your hometown? Welcome to the forums!
Interesting suggestion, and one I hadn't thought of. For a single room you don't want to heat on a regular basis, that sounds like a pretty good solution. A 1500W infrared furnace will do somewhere in the 800sq ft range, and might work out both hunky and dory. At about $600, it too is quite expensive, but the output heat is miles ahead of Edenpure's. This *could* be a good way for renters to go as well, since it IS portable, and would fit quite nicely in even a very compact car. At $600 though, I still have to wonder if it's even NEAR worth the price when an oil filled or a resistance style heater are so much less expensive, yet work just about as well. You did ask for "thoughts".
Al


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Common sense is not so common
Voltaire




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I bought the model 500, supposed to heat 500 sq. ft. Won't heat 240. Am returning it. Consider it a complete fraud!

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Hi Iconn, and welcome to the forums. Sorry to hear that, but now you know where to get some information about just about any subject, and likely make some friends along the way. I hope you stick around and enjoy this place.
Al


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Common sense is not so common
Voltaire




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Was that an eden pure?

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This heater is just a big scam!!!

Go to: http://www.clarkpublicutilities.com/Residential/TheEnergyAdviser/Archives2006/06_01_15

and most likely many other sites on the net (I did a Google search on: EdenPURE™ Quartz Infrared Portable Heater) to see how much these people are scamming the public. All they do is create a earthy type sounding name and make lots of claims they can't prove; sell it with a money back guarantee, and they know from other past scam products that only a certain small percentage of customers will ever send it back.

Have people thought about the cost or availability of the infrared heating bulbs in these units when they burn out? Or as to how rugged these are? Bulbs in a portable unit, getting bumped, dropped, etc., equals short lifespan.

If people want to save money, there are many ways to be more efficient with heating as well as lighting. Putting plastic sheeting over the interior of windows. Also replacing all incandescent bulbs with compact fluorescent bulbs for lighting. Many dollars can be saved using common sense methods of conserving heat and electric.

Gotta go now as I've got a friend who is ready to purchase one of these magic, new age, cosmic heating units that I need to try to stop now.

Hope this helped folks clear up the confusion a bit.

Be well, and keep warm.

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I have never signed up to a chatline before (I presume that's what this is). I found it by putting "edenpure" in google. I was looking for some info on the space heater after seeing an ad in my newspaper. I just had to sign up to thank you all for posting this good info on it. I have since decided to keep my small space heaters as they are doing a fine job. I have just been concerned with the safety issue of them. I think they will be fine as long as they are not near drapes or newspapers, etc. I want to especially thank this person who posted the url for the clarkpublicutilities site. That was the one that stopped me dead in my tracks to purchasing a edenpure spaceheater. Thanks.

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Aggggg!!! THIS IS A COMMUNITY OK I will drop the capitals-now - We are a collection of like minded folk who love technology - Not just for it's own sake but for what we can do with it or how it works. Technically we are a forum.

See the FAQ for history -

But that aside, welcome to our band of technological heroes and thanks for the thanks!.





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I woke up today! - WOW!

Richard


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Hi all,
My first time on the site but looks very informative. I have been looking for a heater to tackle my 400 sq ft basement. Have tried alot and nothing seems to work. Was looking into the Edenpure but couldn't find any info on it other than the website itself. I did find another heater this morning. www.reduceenergybills.com
Called the portable furnace. Little expensive but I found more info on it than the Edenpure. Also has replaceable lamps that the edenpure does not.
Any help or info would be appreciated. Just want something to heat my room.
Thanks

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My first question would be who makes it? I can't find a single reference to the manufacturer, hence, there isn't much I can do to check out their claims. Can you hear the needle on the sceptical meter hitting the top end yet?
Hi bman. The unit is rated at 1500 watts, and *appears* to use 4 common heat lamps to produce the heat. This unit also uses 1500 watts and would be a reasonable alternative that HAS a proven track record. I'm also fond of a few of the units Phonedave and a few others have mentioned, but even more of a fan of a permanently installed 220v baseboard unit with the T-stat wall mounted. The one you linked to is $499.00. The honeywell is well under $100.00, as would be a permanent 220v system. I'm NOT saying the one you linked to is not a good heater. It's just that I'm VERY leary of something I can find no information about other than *claims* by an unspecified manufacturer.
Al

--------------------
Common sense is not so common
Voltaire
Smileys



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Hey ClockHopper!!

Is that some great advertising fluff, or what?:Dheh heh heh

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Ya have to give them credit for that!, Whoever *they* are.

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Yeah, $499 is kinda steep for 1500 watts.
You could get 16 'cubes' from WalMart for $499 - and have about 85000 btu capacity.

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Of course an upgrade of the electrical system may be necessary to run them all. Almost 82,000 BTU. Just your average basement requirement.
Al


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Common sense is not so common
Voltaire
Smileys



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It's attractively packaged and well written, but it's a rip-off.
It's basically four spot lights, in a wood box - with a very small fan and a thermostat.

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Yeah, it honestly looks like some kid's science project. It probably isnt much more than some guys science project.

--------------------
WWFSMD

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. . . . upgrade of the electrical system . . . .

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Yeah, that's true.
15 or 16 of those 'cubes' - jeez, you'd need about a 250 amp supply at 117 VAC.

Well . . . . eight or ten of 'em would probably have the capacity for a 1600 cu ft space. Still, that's about 150 amps at 117 VAC.

Ya know, those ceramic elements seem to be pretty tough. I inadvertantly wired one of those cubes across both hot feeds in a meter base once upon a time.
I was tent camping at the hunting club I belong to and it turned kinda cold that night.
The cube heater is part of the 'normal junk' that I keep in the old Datsun truck - my rolling storage shed.
There was an old power pole with a meter base nearby. Turned out the thing was hot, so I used a couple of heavy duty 'clip leads' and some electrical tape and bootlegged onto it.
About an hour later I realized that little heater was working too well and the fan was running faster than it should and realized what I'd done and went out and moved one of the clips over to the neutral.
I've still got that little heater and it still works just fine.


--------------------
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."--H.L.Mencken
I suspect so, H.L.heh heh

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... I had a 1500 watt Holmes oil-filled heater,

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... I thought it was safe to use because there is no flame.

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The porch was smoky this morning...heat and/or flame scorched the face plate...

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... The radio pugged into the same outlet was completely unaffected (electricity never flickered), and the outlet is working fine.

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..since it "cannot start a fire".

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I'm not seeing a bad review on the better business website...

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after last night, it seems like it might be worth it.

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I work a lot, and can't always be home to baby-sit a heater,

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I read that, on average, you should figure 10 watts per sq ft to heat,

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I really don't want to wire in another outlet, and I'd rather not put two units in, but I might have to.

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I'm open to suggestions!

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If bringing heat in is difficult, then why not have a look at what can be done to keep it from escaping? Check seals at doors and windows, think about replacing windows or adding insulation. Maybe an air-to-air heat exchanger? The through-the-wall type are getting better and better these days. Price is dropping too.



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Unpleasant truth of the day - You're unique, but that doesn't make you special.

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I have one of these and have some info.

1) The company "Portable Furnace" is in Winnipeg, Canada. They have a website www.portablefurnace.com. Also, for what it's worth mine heats my basement great (around 300 sq. ft.). It uses infrared bulbs that are 375 watts each. The way it works (so they tell me) is the air when heated is forced through a heat exchanger, like a furnace, and a fan blows it out. The big difference I like, rather than space heaters, is that my kids can play around it without knocking it over and/or burning them or my carpet. I shelled out some bucks for this so maybe I'm biased. It works for me and lives up to claims, at least so far. Thoughts?

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Hi bassman. Thoughts? Just one (or two). I figured it would heat just fine, and as Ted mentioned, 1500 watts is 1500 watts no mater how you sclice it, but the price was *up there*. The upside is a decent looking cabinet that doesn't get hot, so as you mentioned, the kids remain safe. Another downside (maybe) is the amout of room it takes up. It's footprint is much larger than a baseboard heater of the same wattage. If that isn't a concern (big room) then you have a good situation for it, so price is the only downside. I've not yet run across one, but it sounds like a viable alternative for you. I'd opt for the baseboard style, but concerns with the safty of little people isn't a problem for me anymore. My *little people* are all bigger than me!
Al


--------------------
Common sense is not so common
Voltaire
Smileys



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What are your opinions about this heater?

http://www.biotechresearch.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=34_36&products_id=72&osCsid=3e66229f2faa035c7e2a879294b15ae0

I am mostly concerned with the cost of electric for the heat output generated. $1/day (their estimate) would probably save some money, and I would only use it when in the room. If this unit was used to heat a room at the bottom of a stairway, would the heat go up the stairway?

OK, now I'm going to the web for more fodder...

---

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I just saw this avertised on TV recently and I was disgusted at the lies. I'm a Heating Ventilation and Air Conditioning (HVAC) Engineer.

I see others have already explained much of why this heater isn't worth anywhere near what they are asking for it.

Basically it is a light bulb in an insulated box with a fan. It is electric resistance heat ... period .... it isn't even a radiant heater.

Their energy savings claims are just plain ludicrous. The entire TV ad was so full of misinformation it made me, just now, search out a place online to warn people to stay away from this stupid "thing".

They talk about "burning" the air, completely even heat throughout a room, etc. It defies physics, let alone common sense. Almost everything they said has one shred of truth to it so they have plausible deniability but the bottom line is that this thing is, as I said before, an electric heater inside a box, with a fan.

They repeat one of my favorite pet peeve myths, that heating air removes moisture from the air ... it doesn't.

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Thank you, thank you, thank you! Hi Steve, and welcome to our forums!! I hope you enjoy the place and decide to stop by frequently. Especially at this time of the year, we get a lot of questions that would be right up your alley, along with many other things that I believe would be of interest to you. It's always good to have extra input from people *in the buisness*, but don't be surprised if the friendships gained here overshadow even that. It's a great group of people, and I hope you stick around and get to know us. Good point about *removing* moisture from the air. Changes RH, yes, removes moisture? - not so much!
Al

--------------------
Common sense is not so common
Voltaire
Smileys



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Off topic first post. Sorry. I have a OLD furnace in my home that only heats the front half of the home. The back half has a old wood/coal stove that needs replaced. For that matter the furnace should be too. The home is about 2,000 sq ft. I want a reliable "Cheap" heat source that is not throwing off toxic emmisions (I have birds and they have unique respretory systems). It gets pretty cold here in PA so I need a GOOD heat source. Should I just get another wood/coal stove, another furnace, both, or is there something that you would recomend?

Thanks,

Keith

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Hi, Keith,

First off, welcome to the Forums!!! Always nice to pick up a new member.

I'd say the real answer depends on your situation. Most people would benefit most from getting one of the newer high-efficency gas/propane heaters. The work so well that the only "emmissions" are a small amount of water that exits through a drain and some ordinary CO2.

On the other hand, if you have a good supply of wood or coal, an air-tight Franklin/Oregon class heater would be the cheapest. Be sure to get one that draws it's combustion air from outside rather than using the warm air in the house that you've already paid to heat. Again, the newer model of those type stoves have few emissions because they employ a catalytic converter which not only gets rid of most of the noxious stuff but also increases the overall efficency. There's a wide range of models on the market. Many also contain a small fan for even better heat distribution and use only a small amount of power.

Also, depending on your local power rates, a heatpump is also a good choice. They will provide you with heat in the winter and cooling in the summer - all from the one unit. One suggestion on them is to be sure and use a gas (or propane-fired) unit for what they call "emergency heat" as opposed to the common electric strip-heaters normally installed with it. Those electric heaters are absoultely THE most expensive way on the market of getting heat.

So, check into your wood/coal avalibity and prices and consider the other alternatives I just mentioned. Let us know what you decide.


--------------------
You can see more from a mountain and from the prespective of years - but only if you keep your eyes open.

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I just saw this avertised on TV recently and I was disgusted at the lies. I'm a Heating Ventilation and Air Conditioning (HVAC) Engineer.

I see others have already explained much of why this heater isn't worth anywhere near what they are asking for it.

Basically it is a light bulb in an insulated box with a fan. It is electric resistance heat ... period .... it isn't even a radiant heater.

Their energy savings claims are just plain ludicrous. The entire TV ad was so full of misinformation it made me, just now, search out a place online to warn people to stay away from this stupid "thing".

They talk about "burning" the air, completely even heat throughout a room, etc. It defies physics, let alone common sense. Almost everything they said has one shred of truth to it so they have plausible deniability but the bottom line is that this thing is, as I said before, an electric heater inside a box, with a fan.

They repeat one of my favorite pet peeve myths, that heating air removes moisture from the air ... it doesn't.

---

Hi, Steve,

I'm behind the power curve as usual but just want to add my own "Welcome to the Forums" to the ones you've already gotten. We've got a great bunch of folks here and we'd all be very happy to count you as regular member.

Also, we've got several folks here, including myself, who have done varing amounts of work with HVAC units. But you are our first true engineer in the field.

For my part, I've worked with heat pumps, air drier systems (both heat-recharged dessicant types and refigeration units) and was once responsibile for a computer-driven environmental system for a large installation that included a drug manufactoring facility, chemical warehouse and regular office space for about 100 people. It used both piston-driven and scroll-type staged compressors, two large chillers with evap/cooling towers and a multistage gas-fired boiler for heat. The main and individual air distrubution ducts all contained motor-driven louvers and it was possible to maintain temperature and humidity levels within 2% of the desired settings year-round. A very nice system.

As I said, I'm no engineer but I do know how to read psychometric charts (Mollier diagrams) and understand airflow and heat transfer principles involved in the various types of systems.

--------------------
You can see more from a mountain and from the prespective of years - but only if you keep your eyes open.

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Off topic first post. Sorry. I have a OLD furnace in my home that only heats the front half of the home. The back half has a old wood/coal stove that needs replaced. For that matter the furnace should be too. The home is about 2,000 sq ft. I want a reliable "Cheap" heat source that is not throwing off toxic emmisions (I have birds and they have unique respretory systems). It gets pretty cold here in PA so I need a GOOD heat source. Should I just get another wood/coal stove, another furnace, both, or is there something that you would recomend?

Thanks,

Keith

---

In addition to what Old Dad said, I would recomend having a heat load calculation done first in order to size the unit (whatever you get) properly. A little more info about that, presented with a touch of humor. If you happen to be a math-o-phobic, look at the botom of that page for help with that.
Al

--------------------
Common sense is not so common
Voltaire
Smileys



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Off topic first post.

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Perfectly OK, Here, Keith.
We do that all the time.

Well, I'm no heating system expert and my living quarters are a bit unique.
I live in an apartment in a century + old house.
My primary heat is a free standing radiant/convection type natural gas heater; electronic ignition, thermostat controlled, Martin Industries, and - if I remember correctly - about 40,000 BTU, which is a bit more capacity than I actually need. I figured it's better to have the extra capacity and not need it.

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It gets pretty cold here in PA so I need a GOOD heat source.

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I'm hip!!
My Dad was born and raised in PA.

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. . . . is there something that you would recomend?

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Well, no. Not me. I'm not qualified to offer advise in that area. There are others here who are far better sources of that information. You've already met a couple of them.
My only recommendation is to listen to them.


--------------------
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."--H.L.Mencken
I suspect so, H.L.heh heh

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I have a 1200 sq' shop, all electric no gas. What would be the best way to go about heating it? Pellet stove or a G73 Dayton electric heater or something else. What about oil filled radiator like a Honeywell? Only need to heat it up during the day time to work in, nights I dont need to keep it warm. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

---

Hi, Bcrab,

Welcome to the Forums!

You've actually got several good choices - including the ones you've already listed.

Another is a wood heater, if you happen to have a good supply of wood close by. Yet another is a kerosene-fuelled shop heater if you have good ventilation. That's those jet-engine looking jobs with a powerful fan. They will heat up the space VERY fast. Also, you can use one for the quick first heating phase and then close things up a bit if you switch on another type - like an electric or other heater.

Another good pick is a butane/propane fuelled heater. Several models use the same refillable bottles/tanks used in gas grills. Even the ones that don't (wall mounted models) can be easily hooked up to a tank.

Personally, I happen to have plenty of wood here at home, so that would be my first choice. Otherwise, I'd pick the kerosene heater and butane heater combination for both speedy (little time lost on really cold mornings) and even heat AND because that would save a lot of money over the other choices in the long run.

--------------------
You can see more from a mountain and from the prespective of years - but only if you keep your eyes open.

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Hi J_mech.

Welcome to the HWW Forums.
Glad you joined us.

Quote:

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. . . . turned out to be more of a book . . . .

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heh heh heh
You're in the right place.
You'll see what I mean after you read through a few of our posts.
And . . . . we're prone to going off-topic pretty often. It's more like a face-to-face conversation here.

--------------------
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."--H.L.Mencken
I suspect so, H.L.heh heh

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Hi Jman.
Welcome to the HWW Forums.

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THANKS for the valuable info . . . .

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. . . . hope to come back to the community often . . . .

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Please do.
We'll be glad to 'see' ya.

--------------------
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."--H.L.Mencken
I suspect so, H.L.heh heh

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Hi Tflan.
Welcome to the HWW Forums.

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. . . . "if it sounds too good to be true, it isn't true", applies to these $400 space heaters.

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You are correct.
Nearly all these plug-in heaters are 1500 watts, and like Clockman said, 1500 watts is 1500 watts no matter how you slice it.

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The advert states that there is "specially treated copper" which makes the unit more efficient, which is IMO, so much B.S.

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That's my opinion, too.
They could tie a pink ribbon and bow, add a flashing light and it would Still be a 1500 watt heater.

I've recently seen plastic cased 1500 watt plug-in heaters at WalMart for $9.96 but I'd stick with the $20 metal cased variety.

--------------------
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."--H.L.Mencken
I suspect so, H.L.heh heh

Edited by Ted (12/02/06 06:12 PM)

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Hi ss06.
Welcome to the HWW Forums.

Let's try this.

OK.
That's another 1500 watt, 117 VAC plug-it-in-the wall heater. It will heat the same as the $20 variety.
All models shown on that web site are 1500 watt heaters - except the 220/240 VAC models which are more efficient and less costly to operate per BTU - if you have a 220 VAC receptacle available.

None of these plug-in heaters are going to heat your whole downstairs.
These plug-in heaters are good for keeping your toes warm under a desk in a cold corner.

It doesn't matter how it's packaged, 1500 watts is 1500 watts and 1500 watts is equal to 5120 BTU - same as a dollar store hair blow drier.

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Our electric bill in the winter is really really high!

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The gas furnace is on the bottom floor . . . .

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I have a radiating heater, I guess its a oil heater, has the numbers in front and 2 tabs.

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. . . . then it throws the circuit.

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Yep.
That's why these plug-in heaters are limited to 1500 watts. That's about all you can draw from the 'average' wall receptacle. These little heaters draw about 13 Amps.



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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."--H.L.Mencken
I suspect so, H.L.heh heh

Edited by Ted (12/05/06 11:32 PM)

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Hi, thank you for your reply. Yes, our gas furnace is a Central unit with ducts and forced air circulation. And the plug in heater is oil filled. It gets very hot to the touch and its heavy. It's lasted for a long time, I was hoping there would be a newer type of plug in heater, That would heat bigger spaces, etc. We would have installed a fireplace downstairs if we could but we can't because the duct for the fireplace, would go straight thru the top floor, and if we would try and install a franklin stove or something similar, we can't either, because there is a porch right outside the den, and it can't flow upwards. We can't install anything that needs to be vented on the downstairs floor because of the awkward layout. My daughter had a small tiny heater that would blow hot air out in her bedroom (long time ago) and it would throw off the circuit. It was a small thing. I went to look at the one you listed and it looks good, I'll show it to hubby. I'm doing the research, I'm the scout Forgot to mention, our bedroom is on the top level, so we're nice and warm upstairs. Thanks for your reply, if you find anything else, I would appreciate your advice.

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Hi, SS,

The first part of this isn't addressed directly at you but is just some general statements to clear up some facts, OK? But I do have something for you in just a moment.

The majority of the heaters discussed in this thread are nothing more than simple electrical-resistance heat-generating devices. Regardless of how they are packaged/housed, the operating principle is precisely the same as an electric oven, hair blow-dryer or tabletop bread toaster.

And although everyone may not be aware of it, heating by way of electrical resistance is absolutely the MOST expensive method known to humankind! Anything - and I mean anything else is cheaper. The only genuine attraction for such units is their simplicity of installation and use - buy them & plug 'em in. But the owners of these devices will pay dearly for that convenience every time the power bill arrives.

Now, specifically for you, SS, and a couple of other folks as well. A good alternative for your needs is a vented/ventless gas heater. There are hundreds of different makes & models to choose from and they're practically maintenance free. (Perhaps once every year or two, they may need the dust blown out of the tiny pilot-light jet - and that's it.) I picked this little article for you to check for more information on them. One reason for selecting it is that it mentions a very specific item that's an absolute MUST (in my opinion) for any gas heater - an oxygen-depletion sensor. And even though the article specifically addresses garages, the things are useful anywhere.

On a personal note, I have three of them in my own home. I live in the foothills of the North Georgia mountains. The roads are narrow and heavily lined with tall trees. Power failures of several hours (and even days, during ice and snowstorms) are fairly common. Without power, my central heat is completely useless. And those three little units keep us warm and cozy regardless. And now that I'm thinking about it, they even light up the floor at night, too.

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Light travels faster than sound; that's why people seem brighter - until you hear them.

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Hi, SS,

Now, specifically for you, SS, and a couple of other folks as well. A good alternative for your needs is a vented/ventless gas heater. There are hundreds of different makes & models to choose from and they're practically maintenance free. (Perhaps once every year or two, they may need the dust blown out of the tiny pilot-light jet - and that's it.) I picked this little article for you to check for more information on them. One reason for selecting it is that it mentions a very specific item that's an absolute MUST (in my opinion) for any gas heater - an oxygen-depletion sensor. And even though the article specifically addresses garages, the things are useful anywhere.

On a personal note, I have three of them in my own home. I live in the foothills of the North Georgia mountains. The roads are narrow and heavily lined with tall trees. Power failures of several hours (and even days, during ice and snowstorms) are fairly common. Without power, my central heat is completely useless. And those three little units keep us warm and cozy regardless. And now that I'm thinking about it, they even light up the floor at night, too.

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Hello Old Dad I think you might have solved our problem! I don't know why we had not considered these heaters. Well, I do know one reason, the gas line would have to be brought from the computer room which use to be the utility room. We built a utility room next to it, so the utility room became the computer room and we have the room next it for the washing machine and dryer. I guess the gas man that does our furnace, etc every year, might be able to come up with a solution. I'm also thinking that a heater that needs to be vented could possibly be installed on the wall near the door leading to the outside porch. I don't think the vent would be that unsightly from the outside. My gas dryer has a vent, and it leads to the outside, and is located on the ground level. So, if we got a vented gas heater, that line could be done the same way as the gas dryer, don't you think? I think the most expensive part of this project would be the gas man, bringing the line thru the other room. Now that you say you have three, why couldn't I also put one in the bedroom (which is now a craft, everything room)? The gas outlet which is covered up right now (since its my computer room) is the source or the furnace which is located in the computer room as well. If this is not convenient or unsightly, then the ventless gas heater is the way to go. Why hadn't we considered this before? I guess we thought it was dangerous? I don't know. I know we had considered a fireplace, but due to the layout of the house, it was not possible. I'm so happy I found this forum. Thank you for your reply and your patience. By the way, what type of gas heater do you have, is it a gas heater type (box type) or a log burning heater?

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Hello Old Dad I think you might have solved our problem! I don't know why we had not considered these heaters. Well, I do know one reason, the gas line would have to be brought from the computer room which use to be the utility room. We built a utility room next to it, so the utility room became the computer room and we have the room next it for the washing machine and dryer. I guess the gas man that does our furnace, etc every year, might be able to come up with a solution. I'm also thinking that a heater that needs to be vented could possibly be installed on the wall near the door leading to the outside porch. I don't think the vent would be that unsightly from the outside. My gas dryer has a vent, and it leads to the outside, and is located on the ground level. So, if we got a vented gas heater, that line could be done the same way as the gas dryer, don't you think? I think the most expensive part of this project would be the gas man, bringing the line thru the other room. Now that you say you have three, why couldn't I also put one in the bedroom (which is now a craft, everything room)? The gas outlet which is covered up right now (since its my computer room) is the source or the furnace which is located in the computer room as well. If this is not convenient or unsightly, then the ventless gas heater is the way to go. Why hadn't we considered this before? I guess we thought it was dangerous? I don't know. I know we had considered a fireplace, but due to the layout of the house, it was not possible. I'm so happy I found this forum. Thank you for your reply and your patience. By the way, what type of gas heater do you have, is it a gas heater type (box type) or a log burning heater?

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Hi, SS,

Good - I'm glad I may have helped.

The ones pictured and listed here are very similar to the ones I have. We've got one of each shown - the largest one takes care of the livingroom/dining room/kitchen, the middle one is in a rather large room (combination bedroom & kitchen) that was intended for my Father until he passed away, and I had the smallest installed in just one bathroom - again, intended just for during power failures.

Also, since they are intended primarily for use during power outages, I didn't buy the optional electric blowers - they wouldn't be much use then, would they? Consequently, I don't know how effective the blowers are for regular use but I suspect they might be good to have for your purpose. They would help a little in spreading the heat around more quickly and evenly.

And I must confess that being sort of a frugal type (which is my basic nature) that I also use them at times when my wife and I are home alone. No need to heat this whole *BIG* house for just the two of us. So that saves gas and takes no power for the central blower.

And seriously - you'd be pretty amazed at just how little gas these units take while keeping you nice and toasty. Also, while using them in the winter, I enjoy walking out and looking at my power meter - the thing is hardly moving! {Heh-heh-heh!}

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Light travels faster than sound; that's why people seem brighter - until you hear them.

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I went to look at the one you listed and it looks good . . .

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Ah - that was your link. I just tidied it up a bit.

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Yes, our gas furnace is a Central unit with ducts and forced air circulation.

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Hmmmm . . . .
I'm wondering if you need to adjust the dampers in the ducts to force more of the heat to the downstairs.
Read through this thread - especially the last couple of posts.

Otherwise, the type gas heaters Old Dad mentioned are exactly the type I installed in my apartment to replace the existing antique space heaters.
I used Martin brand, but only because I got a very good price from a friend who owns a small hardware store. I'm not making a brand name recommendation here. They were the previous years left over stock.
These heaters a really nice. I'm more than happy with 'em.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."--H.L.Mencken
I suspect so, H.L.heh heh

Edited by Ted (12/06/06 08:43 PM)

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I just wanted to thank the folks on this website for the information about the EdenPURE quartz infrared portable heaters. You have saved my husband and I a lot of money. We got a kick out of some of the comments.

My husband and I are Rotary members and my husband said it was advertised in their newsletter. He wanted to order it but asked me to check on the internet to get customer reviews. Boy, I'm glad we did!

I'm going to send Rotary Intl a message about it. Do you know any good sources to include with this website for customer reviews/professional opinions?

Thanks again!

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Hi, Fox,

Glad you decided to check with us. A little shamless plug, if I may? Please come back anytime and also tell your friends about us - we might be able to help them with something as well. We've got a nice freindly group of folks here who, if combined, represent a few hundred years of collective experience in practically everything under the sun. They cover everthing from heating, plumbing, air conditioning, telephones, power distribution (commercial and residental), a real practicing doctor (MD) and - are you ready for this? - a physicist who designs and works on atomic clocks AND a genuine rocket scientist employed by NASA! If you can name it, the chances are very good that someone here knows about it.

I don't know of the kind of site you've asked about, maybe someone else does, but I'd always suggest Consumer Reports as a good place to start. They are not connected in any way with the people who make and sell the things they test and therefore give unbiased reports.

Just coincidentally, by the way, I was also a member of the Rotary and the Chamber of Commerce before I retired. They are also nice folks - but always remember that they ARE in the business of promoting their members. So advertising and promotions are a natural part of what they do.

Hope to see you back again soon!!!

Old Dad


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Light travels faster than sound; that's why people seem brighter - until you hear them.

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I just wanted to thank the folks on this website for the information about the EdenPURE quartz infrared portable heaters. You have saved my husband and I a lot of money. We got a kick out of some of the comments.

My husband and I are Rotary members and my husband said it was advertised in their newsletter. He wanted to order it but asked me to check on the internet to get customer reviews. Boy, I'm glad we did!

I'm going to send Rotary Intl a message about it. Do you know any good sources to include with this website for customer reviews/professional opinions?

Thanks again!

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Hi fox. Please allow me to mimic Old Dad's response with my own invitation to *drop by anytime*, and glad we could help. "We", being EVERYONE on this site. I would also like to say that for customer reviews of things *in general*, you've already found a durn good place to get them! Though the members here may not have tried every product out there, *we* do have the means to find out about just about anything you could want, and that almost always includes links to other sites, expert and non expert opinions, and likely more information than you might origionally be asking for. Some of us tend to be a bit *long winded* sometimes. Along the way, you'll find we tend to go *off track* and get into related things as well, but your questions will ALWAYS be answered as well. So rather than look for a specific site for product reviews, why not just give us a try first? Over time, you'll not only get those links, but you may just make a few friends and share in some fun with the rest of us. We're a friendly group, and always willing AND able to help. I think you'll find on the rare occasion where at LEAST one of our members doesn't have the answer to something, by threads end, MOST of us do. We tend to go a bit overboard (in a good way ) researching things we don't know about.
Drop by anytime, and often!
Al

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Common sense is not so common
Voltaire
Smileys
Don't take life so seriously. It isn't permanent!



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Had a quick google, apparently it's only oil-filled - you had a serious malfunction in that unit and that really shouldn't happen. Bring it back to the dealer and see what they say.
I run three units of similar function in my garage and haven't had any trouble. The local Scouts house is also heated solely by those, around a dozen of them. One has sprung a leak and got discarded, that's all.


How one piece of equipment reacted can be a very poor indicator of how another piece of equipment would react. Radios for the most part are basically low voltage designs, they all have a considerable amount of power conditioner circuitry in them. Try pulling the plug while the radio is playing and you are quite likely to have a couple of sceonds of noise before the radio realizes that the feed is broken. Not all machines are so forgiving.
If you had a malfunction of the same order of magnitude in an edenpure as the one you had in your Holmes it would be about as likely to start a fire. Anything connected to the mains has the potential to start a fire, if it develops a short/poor connection at the most inappropiate place.

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Being an electrician and seeing this happen many times it's usually the outlet quality and or the wiring job itself.

I went into a theater that had the same model heater in one of there dressing rooms. The outlet that the unit was plugged into was melted beyond belief only because some person was confident enough they didn't need an electrician to wire outlets around the mirrors. Well not having any knowledge they didn't realize that you MUST make sure the wires that connect to the outlets are tightly secured. They just wrapped the wires around the screws and never even tightened the screws! What happens here is the more current (watts/amps) draw the larger the wire needs to be or it becomes a resistor which is how a heating element works. is this case the loose connection on the outlet was a big resistor that was starting to arc when this happens carbon starts to buildup and get even hotter! Sorry for the long explanation. I would honestly have the outlet and the wiring looked at. Also the radio was unaffected because it doesn't pull anywhere the current the heater pulls. The other possible problem which is common also is the plug on the heater is cheaply made and they stamp the wire to the brass prong that is encased in the rubber plug. sometime the same scenario as mentioned above. if the outlets OK you can cut off the bad plug and replace it with a new plug from your local hardware store, just make sure you tighten the screw terminals over the wire real good.
Hope this helps and glad youre home didn't go up in flames.

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Thanks, Old Dad and Clockman!

I'll certainly come back.

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On behalf of both of us, you're very welcome, Fox. Hope to see you again soon.

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Light travels faster than sound; that's why people seem brighter - until you hear them.

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I have one of these and have some info.

1) The company "Portable Furnace" is in Winnipeg, Canada. They have a website www.portablefurnace.com. Also, for what it's worth mine heats my basement great (around 300 sq. ft.). It uses infrared bulbs that are 375 watts each. The way it works (so they tell me) is the air when heated is forced through a heat exchanger, like a furnace, and a fan blows it out. The big difference I like, rather than space heaters, is that my kids can play around it without knocking it over and/or burning them or my carpet. I shelled out some bucks for this so maybe I'm biased. It works for me and lives up to claims, at least so far. Thoughts?

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Let's see here
4 heat lamps 15.00
4 ceramic lamp sockets 18.00
cabinet materials 15.00
thermostat module 15.00
Muffin fan 3.50
Aluminum heat exchanger 10.00
other misc. items 15.00

Total 91.50
Probably costs them 50.00 since they are being mas produced in Vietnam.

Dude! Whose getting screwed here! You can buy a portable baseboard heater and put it under a window and I bet you would get the same or better results for 39.95 and most of them are safe for kids. almost all space heaters today have tip sensors in them to help prevent fires.



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Being an electrician and seeing this happen many times it's usually the outlet quality and or the wiring job itself.

I went into a theater that had the same model heater in one of there dressing rooms. The outlet that the unit was plugged into was melted beyond belief only because some person was confident enough they didn't need an electrician to wire outlets around the mirrors. Well not having any knowledge they didn't realize that you MUST make sure the wires that connect to the outlets are tightly secured. They just wrapped the wires around the screws and never even tightened the screws! What happens here is the more current (watts/amps) draw the larger the wire needs to be or it becomes a resistor which is how a heating element works. is this case the loose connection on the outlet was a big resistor that was starting to arc when this happens carbon starts to buildup and get even hotter! Sorry for the long explanation. I would honestly have the outlet and the wiring looked at. Also the radio was unaffected because it doesn't pull anywhere the current the heater pulls. The other possible problem which is common also is the plug on the heater is cheaply made and they stamp the wire to the brass prong that is encased in the rubber plug. sometime the same scenario as mentioned above. if the outlets OK you can cut off the bad plug and replace it with a new plug from your local hardware store, just make sure you tighten the screw terminals over the wire real good.
Hope this helps and glad youre home didn't go up in flames.

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Hi, JSB,

Welcome to the Forums!!!! It's always very nice to have a new member, especially a professional! Sure hope you hang around.

Though I've never been lisicend, I've worked under several and have seen exactly what you're talking about. One thing that always struck me when dealing with old work was how often the wiring was undersized. But I also must admit that some of dated back to when #14 was quite acceptable when it was installed because power usage was much smaller back then. I've also worked in homes that had a 50-amp service. Guess that will tell you the time-period I'm talking about.

Another dangerous thing that you used to see a lot of, and still do, is outlets and branch circuits that are overloaded through the use of extension cords and octopuss plugs. Even in homes today where the number of outlets in each room are much more plentiful than they used to be, often times they are blocked by furniture and the homeowner will overload the ones they can easily get to.

Incidentally, as a phone company employee working in what we called Outside Plant, I've also done *tons* of commercial/industrial wiring as well. All the way up to 3-0 cableing. One of the few times I actually had to use a pipewrench to make some of the necessary bends. {Heh-heh-heh!}

I always enjoyed it and took a great deal of pride in making good, solid connections, neat runs, properly labled breakers, etc. It's certainly one field where quality of workmanship is important. Both in terms of operation AND safety.

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Light travels faster than sound; that's why people seem brighter - until you hear them.

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I always enjoyed it and took a great deal of pride in making good, solid connections, neat runs, properly labeled breakers, etc. It's certainly one field where quality of workmanship is important. Both in terms of operation AND safety.

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I bet when you're done wiring a panel, you stand back and look at it like you just painted the Mona Lisa. I do....

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I bet when you're done wiring a panel, you stand back and look at it like you just painted the Mona Lisa. I do....

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LEO! Long time no see! Have you finished 'supper' yet?
Hi JSB. Welcome to the forums, and thanks for your input. Some very good pointers and safety tips there. Like you, and *the old one* I tend to take a step back too, to look at what has been done, hopefully admiringly, but more importantly, to make sure nothing has been forgotten. It's a good feeling when you can stand back and know what you've done is not only workable, but safe and neatly done. Then lock the panel so the inevitable electrical gremlins can't get it! It's always interesting to see the inside of a panel several people have been in. You can almost see the people through the quality of their work, and tell who did the origional install vs the add ons.
Al


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Common sense is not so common
Voltaire
Smileys
Don't take life so seriously. It isn't permanent!



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I bet when you're done wiring a panel, you stand back and look at it like you just painted the Mona Lisa. I do....

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The last time I bought a house I was walking around with the inspector when he got to the electrical panel. He took the cover off and we both just stood there and sighed. It was gorgeous. ALL the turns looked like they had been formed by by a little pipe bender. Virtually nothing was crossing over, there was no little bits of insulation or flotsam in the box. It was fantastic.


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People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs.

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I bet when you're done wiring a panel, you stand back and look at it like you just painted the Mona Lisa. I do....

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Yup! Like you, I consider it a work of art. I like to see all the runs going straight into the box with no kinks, all the jacket stripped off inside the box, all the blacks going into the breakers at clean 90-degree angles, the whites run to the neutral buss without curls and a lot of slack AND the lables neatly printed so that *anyone* can read them and tell the difference between "living room" and "utility room." Makes you feel good, doesn't it?

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Light travels faster than sound; that's why people seem brighter - until you hear them.

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The last time I bought a house I was walking around with the inspector when he got to the electrical panel. He took the cover off and we both just stood there and sighed. It was gorgeous. ALL the turns looked like they had been formed by by a little pipe bender. Virtually nothing was crossing over, there was no little bits of insulation or flotsam in the box. It was fantastic.

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Hi, Rzr,

And you can bet that the guy who finished it was feeling good as he was lifting up the cover to go on it. A true professional, he was!

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Light travels faster than sound; that's why people seem brighter - until you hear them.

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..I like to see all the runs going straight into the box with no kinks, all the jacket stripped off inside the box, all the blacks going into the breakers at clean 90-degree angles, the whites run to the neutral buss without curls and a lot of slack...

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While there is a certain neatness to the precisely tailored installation, I prefer there to be a certain (planned) excess of cable available somewhere. Makes it ever so much easier (and neater afterwards) if one component has to be replaced with one with a slightly differing physical design. If I'm already doing a bend for instance I am quite likely to take that as an opportunity to place a loop or two there(nicely strapped and secure of course!) to save a few inches of cable for future needs.

One of my least favourite jobs was/is dealing with the internal tv/radio distribution network in the building. Each socket has some splitter componentry in it, which consumes just about all available space in the wall mounted housing. The cables have to be trimmed so precisely that even attaching them in the first place is a delicate operation. And if for some reason the cables ends up being shortened (due to replacing a socket or so) then there is usually not much choice than to replace the whole run to the next outlet, in both directions.


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Unpleasant truth of the day - You're unique, but that doesn't make you special.

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Great forum. Since I've written off the Eden Pure system, I'm looking for something that will work. I have an all metal 50 x 50 aircraft hangar (12 ft ceiling and concrete pad) that has no heat. I'm looking for a method to warm the building to 50 degrees F. Since I store a fuel filled aircraft in it, I can't use traditional combustion heaters. What will this work in this environment? I'm in the Midwest and it gets to sub zero temps in the winter.

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Hi Rag, and welcome to the forums. WOW!! That's big! Traditionally, something that big would get it's own boiler system. Not to sure how far you want to go with this, but there are a couple of different heat exchangers that would work with either a steam system, steam to water exchange, or even electric. That would make for a HUGE electric bill though. Have a look around this site , or maybe Weil-McLain . No simple little room heater is going to be of much use at all with something THAT big, or at those temperatures. One big thing to do in any case is insulate like crazy, and when you're done, insulate some more!!
Al

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Common sense is not so common
Voltaire
Smileys
Don't take life so seriously. It isn't permanent!



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Thanks, regretfully, the hangar is leased, so I can't make any "improvements." I've thought about insulation, but without a heat source, there's not much to insulate in. I do have an electrical (120v) outlet, but that's it and no real ventilation other than poor door seals.

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Ouch! A 120v anything is going to be just about worthless in those conditions. The best I could suggest would be a turbo style heater, but you would need something along the lines of this animal to do any good. 50 x 50 is 2500 sq', and this will do *up to* 4700, but that isn't including the height of 12', which is 4' larger than *normal*. Add to that that you've got a metal *skin*, and some VERY cold temperatures to deal with, and you'll likely need every bit of the 200,000 BTU that one puts out. I also don't know what the propane bill *might* be, or how often you would have to put on a new tank.(Whoops. 9-1/2 hours acording to what they've said. Maybe there is a bigger tank?) That would get expensive in a heartbeat I'd assume. Perhaps one of the smaller units will do if you only want to keep things a little above freezing?
Al

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Common sense is not so common
Voltaire
Smileys
Don't take life so seriously. It isn't permanent!



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Great forum. Since I've written off the Eden Pure system, I'm looking for something that will work. I have an all metal 50 x 50 aircraft hangar (12 ft ceiling and concrete pad) that has no heat. I'm looking for a method to warm the building to 50 degrees F. Since I store a fuel filled aircraft in it, I can't use traditional combustion heaters. What will this work in this environment? I'm in the Midwest and it gets to sub zero temps in the winter.

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What kind of aircraft are you storing? Depending on its size, it may be possible to get an old parachute or something similar to drape over it. Then an extension cord and a space heater with a thermostat to stick underneath would solve your cold weather problems.

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..and one more thing, under no circumstances should you ever, ever, do thi-

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